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GUEST COMMENT: The City is still the best place if you’re starting out in finance
12 June 2009By Sarah Butcher
COMMENTS
The current crop of MBAs led to the greatest destruction of wealth ever seen and black scholes has largely been discredited by most serious mathematicians as mostly bunkem. Read all comments »I’m a student from China and am studying finance at a top business school in London. I’ve been looking for jobs globally since last year, but given the choice would prefer to work in the City. This is why London’s my top choice.
London is still the arena for international talent
Large financial institutions here have systematic training programmes for junior staff. Small boutiques are also an option if you’re starting your career.
Although everybody is arguing in favour of emerging market opportunities, my experience suggests they are limited if you are junior. From what I’ve seen, you are less welcome in emerging markets if you are not a veteran who can originate deals, build up a whole team, or head an important function.
Emerging markets teams are no better off in this climate. There are fewer deals in emerging markets too. Jobs are being lost and businesses are being sold off or closed.
Emerging markets will not give you global exposure
Unless your final goal is to go back to home country, starting your career in an emerging market is a bad idea. You will be dealing with local markets only and will not be exposed to sophisticated derivatives and financial products. Emerging fixed income markets are very immature and simple. You will not gain advanced quantitative finance knowledge.
This will hinder your ability to land a position with global exposure in future. If you start your career in London, you can do business globally.
Educational establishments in London are better
London’s educational and research institutions are the best. Students at London Business School learn state-of-the-art trading strategies currently being applied in the market. Part-time mathematics courses in Imperial college or Oxford are tailored for quant professionals applying their learning in real jobs.
There are also numerous seminars, workshops, events aimed at providing a platform for free academic discussion and empirical application.
So although situation is still tough here, quite of a few of us would like to stick it out. I plan to try and find a role in London, and at the same time to sharpen my finance skills to improve my competitiveness.
COMMENTS
ponterotto, Derivatives, Fri 12 Jun 09
Alot of what you wrote is true but obvious and not useful.
Wasting your money on all these fancy courses will help a little but will not guarantee you get a job anymore in this market.
And LBS "state-of-the-art trading strategies " - huh? what on earth are you talking about? Never heard of that before. Have you any idea of what is "currently being applied in the market" ?
The best research establishments are US based
"You will be dealing with local markets only and will not be exposed to sophisticated derivatives and financial products. Emerging fixed income markets are very immature and simple. You will not gain advanced quantitative finance knowledge."
This is not strictly true. the illiquidity of such markets means trading the simpler structures (the only thing being traded in mature markets too at the moment) provides great challenges. besides fairly exotic stuff is still sold out there - look at the extent to which korean companies entered into the doomed kiko trades
LBS'09, Student, Fri 12 Jun 09
I completely agree. '09 grads are badly overlooked in this environment. We are being told experience is much more important than a good degree + alternative background. This clearly contradicts what banks claim on their glamorous web sites with bold statements like "we need people with background in cooking!". By not hiring a fresh blood, banks also run a risk of sticking with underperfoming employees. Anyway..
Add your comment »TraderK, Capital Markets, Fri 12 Jun 09
UK schools are decent, but not on a par with US schools. As good as LBS and Imperial are, they would rank in the second tier in the US. Can't compare them with Harvard, Wharton, Chicago, Columbia, Stanford, Berkeley, etc.
Add your comment »MBA, Capital Markets, Fri 12 Jun 09
traderk, who says UK (or european) can't compare with Harvard etc..? have you read the FT lately? and which school ranks top on the MBA?
Add your comment »Disillusioned MBA, Private Equity / Venture Capital, Fri 12 Jun 09
TraderK,
I've studied at both Wharton and at LBS, and you're talking nonsense. You're just rehashing the same old brand whore stereotypes that people those who really have no detailed knowledge dole out.
I don't want to detract from Wharton too much, but let me give you one (out of many) specific examples. In Wharton, in a second year course called Funding Investments, the professor said ' now, don't be scared, but I am going to put an options valuation formula on the board, and you just need to look at it, not need to use it" before he put a slide showing the black-scholes formula and the class collectively gasped. In LBS, MBA's have to know the Black-Scholes and use it inside out... in the first year.
Granted Wharton is a fabulous school and granted this is one example...but to say LBS or Imperial is second tier based on (your perception) of brand alone is rubbish, mate. I know Imperial guys and they're some of the smartest kids in the world... bar none.
Johnny Moondog, Trading, Fri 12 Jun 09
TraderK are you kidding? I have worked with all types in my career and there is ABSOLUTLEY NO way that I would ever hire an MBA for a trading desk over someone with a more technical degree from a school like Imperial or a good engineering/stats/comp sci program in the US. Even better for a trading role would be a guy from Sandhurst or the US Army. They would bury someone from NYU in a competition to see who can think under pressure. I was informally talking to a guy from Chicago GSB about a course in Quant Methods I took as an engineer and he said, "What, you mean like regression analysis?" LOL! I nearly died. This reinforces what Disillusioned MBA said about Wharton.
Trading aside, an MBA is a pretty weak management degree too. Every bank on Earth has 20,000 MBAs at the helm and their FY2008 losses were $500 billion and counting. These companies were all staffed by the vaunted "leaders of tomorrow" from Berkeley, Stanford, Harvard,...etc. Way to "manage" Lehman, AIG and RBS into the ground, guys!
ponterotto, Derivatives, Fri 12 Jun 09
wow - you have to know black scholes formula inside out!
who cares about mba rankings - in terms of research US kills UK.
Milton05, Sat 13 Jun 09
I was taught Black-Scholes for my undergraduate degree. It's largely irrelevant to use such a narrow example to judge which institutions are better in teaching methods or reputation.
The simple fact is that US business schools have endowments of at least ten times what UK business schools enjoy. In terms of research the US institutions are superior.
Anon, Consultancy, Sat 13 Jun 09
"in terms of research US kills UK"
Quite untrue - just look at two statistics for proof:
1) How a minority of U.S. b-school professors have any post-graduate qualifications (Masters by research, PhDs)
2) Of the b-school professors at Tier 1 U.S. schools, how a majority gained their PhDs outside the U.S.
There are some good U.S. schools, but the business education system is fundamentally geared towards high volume, low quality, high margin - churning out MBAs rather than adding value to the business world through useful and leading-edge research.
Hohoho, FX & Money Markets, Sat 13 Jun 09
@ponterotto -
if US kills UK in terms of research, then what does US do to continental Europe?